Information.

[Thelynx]

Since finding omnimancy I have been taken a more scientific approach rather than spiritual approach to my magic. While, from my experience so far, when I follow a spiritual path of magic I have had more fruitful results. Yet, these results are truly a side effect of my practice and are unpredictable. For example, I have been practicing astral projection for a couple of years now and have gone through the normal vibrational exits which I have learned. But when I started IIH I had spontaneous projections right after my exercises which didn't involve any of the vibrations which I was used to. It was a genuine projection since it's exactly what I have experience before. Sometimes with more clarity than normal. I figured out that it's probably due to how the exercises stimulate my astral body more so than my nightly projection attempts. Which is perfectly fine, but to me it seems like a crutch. The reason being because I incorporate meditation on a godform. While I know that people have the stance that whatever works for you works. I don't believe for me it is something I can live by. Because never were any of these projections after my exercises EVER intentional. What's the use of me being able to do something if I have no control over it. So I have stopped doing IIH and sticking to whatever tidbits of practices I can find on the omnimancy forums and other energy exercises I had learned over the years. I am really trying to find informations which is free of dogmatic views when it comes to magic. So I was wondering if anyone knew of sites or books which dealt with magic in a practical non spiritual way. I have already read everything on the public forums here and the library of knowledge. So please don't refernce anything from those if possible. I'm really trying to get on it. I, like everyone else here wants to get into omnimancy, but I cannont rely on something that might not ever happen for me. But that doesn't mean I can't learn something similar and find my own way, but I know I need help. Thanks. :]          

[Neeros]

Since finding omnimancy I have been taken a more scientific approach rather than spiritual approach to my magic. While, from my experience so far, when I follow a spiritual path of magic I have had more fruitful results. Yet, these results are truly a side effect of my practice and are unpredictable.

I have had some very...interesting results during pure spiritual/energetic/mental progression exercises as well. Have you considered researching into how your own mind works to find the triggers for these more potent results? Take what you unlock during spiritual progression and learn how to use it consciously at will. Just a possible way for spiritual progression yield practical results.

For example, I have been practicing astral projection for a couple of years now and have gone through the normal vibrational exits which I have learned. But when I started IIH I had spontaneous projections right after my exercises which didn't involve any of the vibrations which I was used to.

For being such a bare-bones system of magical progression, the IIH is quite a good guide for building ones foundation of practices upon, what step are you on currently?

It was a genuine projection since it's exactly what I have experience before. Sometimes with more clarity than normal. I figured out that it's probably due to how the exercises stimulate my astral body more so than my nightly projection attempts. Which is perfectly fine, but to me it seems like a crutch. The reason being because I incorporate meditation on a godform. While I know that people have the stance that whatever works for you works. I don't believe for me it is something I can live by. Because never were any of these projections after my exercises EVER intentional. What's the use of me being able to do something if I have no control over it. So I have stopped doing IIH and sticking to whatever tidbits of practices I can find on the omnimancy forums and other energy exercises I had learned over the years.

It seems to me that you could just try doing such without the use of a godform. If you wanna skip ahead to step 9, Bardon covers a very simple yet effective technique for astral projection. Full AP is something I've had a lot of problems with in the past but I had some decent breakthroughs using a variation of Bardons technique.

Honestly the IIH in my opinion is better than most of the info to be found in the public domain of magic when it comes to developmental exercises, if I were you I would stick with it and just switch up your training schedule a bit. At least until you accomplish all you can in steps 1 - 3. *shrugs*

I am really trying to find informations which is free of dogmatic views when it comes to magic. So I was wondering if anyone knew of sites or books which dealt with magic in a practical non spiritual way. I have already read everything on the public forums here and the library of knowledge. So please don't refernce anything from those if possible. I'm really trying to get on it. I, like everyone else here wants to get into omnimancy, but I cannont rely on something that might not ever happen for me. But that doesn't mean I can't learn something similar and find my own way, but I know I need help. Thanks. :]

If you are dead set against the IIH, you could always look into something like Dynamic Psi as outlined on the Veritas society forums. Or you could always try too recieve inspiration for exercises from your inner, which would most likely be highly beneficial in many ways.

[Thelynx]

I have had some very...interesting results during pure spiritual/energetic/mental progression exercises as well. Have you considered researching into how your own mind works to find the triggers for these more potent results? Take what you unlock during spiritual progression and learn how to use it consciously at will. Just a possible way for spiritual progression yield practical results.

I have tried but unfortunatly I can't seem to dissasociate my results from the spiritual aspect. I feel like I am expecting my exercise to fail If I don't hold revernce for the spiritual aspect. But that's something I am gonna whole heartly work on now.

For being such a bare-bones system of magical progression, the IIH is quite a good guide for building ones foundation of practices upon, what step are you on currently?

I'm still on number 1. I haven't moved forward since the listing of good an bad qualities is what has been keeping me at a stand still. Since I feel like there is always some virtue or vice that comes up. But I plan to just move one since it seems like it's just hindering progression into the other steps. IIH is really the first system of magic which I tried to actually follow. Before IIH i just do whatever at the time seem appropriate for me with magic. I go with the flow. To me IIH is more structured than I am use to, so I felt like I need to do everything perfectly or nothing will come of my practice. I have been doing magic before IIH and I have recently learned that I don't need to follow it 100% for my magic to work. You are correct that it is a great foundation to build ones practices on. But it did seem to narrow my mind since for a few months i was so focused on getting the preliminary steps right that I thought anything that didn't follow this certain outline of magic wants real magic.

It seems to me that you could just try doing such without the use of a godform. If you wanna skip ahead to step 9, Bardon covers a very simple yet effective technique for astral projection. Full AP is something I've had a lot of problems with in the past but I had some decent breakthroughs using a variation of Bardons technique.

Honestly the IIH in my opinion is better than most of the info to be found in the public domain of magic when it comes to developmental exercises, if I were you I would stick with it and just switch up your training schedule a bit. At least until you accomplish all you can in steps 1 - 3. *shrugs*

Yeah I plan to start meditation without a godform. I have read the type of astral projection bardon mentions but it seems different from what I am used to. If I remember correctly, from a IIH standpoint what I do is mental-astral projection ( I think i read that from Rawn Clark, but I'm not 100% sure). It's what most people commonly call astral projections. Bardons projections seem intense. That your body is basically dead and any slight touch could sever the cord. When I do my version of astral projection, I know my body is alive since i sometimes experience dual vision, since my physical eyes seem to like to open a little while I project. So I don't know if what I have been practice even is considered the same
thing. I was wondering if you could share with me your variation that you
derived from step 9.

If you are dead set against the IIH, you could always look into something like Dynamic Psi as outlined on the Veritas society forums. Or you could always try too receive inspiration for exercises from your inner, which would most likely be highly beneficial in many ways.

I'm not dead set against IIH. I have had great results using even the basic exercises. I am just worried that by excluding certain exercises I am doing more damage than good. Every place I have read that talks about IIH says how it's not good to pick and choose exercises. And how it is one sided training. Even IIH advises against that. I really haven't been able to read about or discuss with anyone the dangers or lack there of, when one does choose to not follow IIH 100%. As for dynamic psi, I have read that and almost everything on veritas for that matter. I read it to gain understanding on certain view points and make my own, if they cannot be made from personal experience. I found dynamic psi very interesting but it's very much a step back from what I am looking for. And as for my inner. How does one communicate with their inner. I know
that I have times when I feel guided to do something or have realization. They are very much a eureka moment. I get led to a certain conclusion or have inklings to do certain thing. For instance, I was led from IIH, to Veritas, and then to a blog and then straight to omnimancy. Never have I had times when I learn something from my inner, it's like I am just shown the way. And if I get the message right the next path opens. But i don't know if this is considered my inner or my higher self. I have looked for ways to communicate with my inner but they all seem to be a passive experience. If anything I want to communicate with whatever is guiding me. But if it happens to not be my inner, communication with my inner would still be something I know would be benefit me. At least I will be able to form an opinion upon it.


Thanks for replying :]

[Neeros]

I'm still on number 1. I haven't moved forward since the listing of good an bad qualities is what has been keeping me at a stand still. Since I feel like there is always some virtue or vice that comes up. But I plan to just move one since it seems like it's just hindering progression into the other steps. IIH is really the first system of magic which I tried to actually follow. Before IIH i just do whatever at the time seem appropriate for me with magic. I go with the flow. To me IIH is more structured than I am use to, so I felt like I need to do everything perfectly or nothing will come of my practice. I have been doing magic before IIH and I have recently learned that I don't need to follow it 100% for my magic to work. You are correct that it is a great foundation to build ones practices on. But it did seem to narrow my mind since for a few months i was so focused on getting the preliminary steps right that I thought anything that didn't follow this certain outline of magic wants real magic.

If I were you since it sounds like you have a pretty full soul mirror is to move on to the next step of transmutation of the negative traits while still retaining some soul mirror filling as you come across more and more traits, possibly just doing it once in awhile.

It can be limiting if you let it, it's meant to be expanded upon, I incorporate a lot of random magical experiments into my studies to supplement.

I can relate to the feeling of "if this outline isn't followed it isn't proper" the way it is set up, it gives a very rounded self-progression. Each faculty gained in a previous step is used to learn higher faculties in later steps. Such as the sensory exercises which lead into the clairvoyant exercises, which leads to things such as astral projection. It may not be the best outline for magical progression but its a damn good one and covers almost everything.

Yeah I plan to start meditation without a godform. I have read the type of astral projection bardon mentions but it seems different from what I am used to. If I remember correctly, from a IIH standpoint what I do is mental-astral projection ( I think i read that from Rawn Clark, but I'm not 100% sure). It's what most people commonly call astral projections. Bardons projections seem intense. That your body is basically dead and any slight touch could sever the cord. When I do my version of astral projection, I know my body is alive since i sometimes experience dual vision, since my physical eyes seem to like to open a little while I project. So I don't know if what I have been practice even is considered the same
thing. I was wondering if you could share with me your variation that you
derived from step 9.

I'm not sure why Bardon always talked about astral projection being so dangerous, I've never seen the silver cord to be as fragile as he says it is. I am no expert though so I suppose if you stretched it thin enough... *shrugs*

My variant was just basically a watered down version of his. I would do a progressive relaxation and a passive watching of my own breath until I began to loose awareness of my body. Once you fully loose awareness of your body, then you can start seperating the astral, letting it float above, the lifting out with your awareness/mental body and attaching it to the astral rather than the physical. I still find full AP rediculously hard for some reason, I suppose I am just too grounded in the physical at the moment. In this instance that it worked for me I basically floated above my body for a few moments then just sort of lost lucidity and fell back inside of myself falling asleep.

As for dynamic psi, I have read that and almost everything on veritas for that matter. I read it to gain understanding on certain view points and make my own, if they cannot be made from personal experience. I found dynamic psi very interesting but it's very much a step back from what I am looking for. And as for my inner. How does one communicate with their inner.

Ask yourself a question, wait for an answer to formulate within your mind. Start small work your way up to questions about hidden objects (missing car keys?) future events, advice on present events. More importantly be open to its passive suggestions, you may find it can assist in decision making to where you end up coming out on top in various situations.

I know that I have times when I feel guided to do something or have realization. They are very much a eureka moment. I get led to a certain conclusion or have inklings to do certain thing. For instance, I was led from IIH, to Veritas, and then to a blog and then straight to omnimancy. Never have I had times when I learn something from my inner, it's like I am just shown the way. And if I get the message right the next path opens. But i don't know if this is considered my inner or my higher self. I have looked for ways to communicate with my inner but they all seem to be a passive experience. If anything I want to communicate with whatever is guiding me. But if it happens to not be my inner, communication with my inner would still be something I know would be benefit me. At least I will be able to form an opinion upon it

Seems like that is a good example of omens, omens can be a very effective way for the higher levels of yourself to communicate to you direction using synchronicity. Events lined up in such a way as to convey a meaning and direction. This could be very blunt such as the event you describe to something very subtle such as a sentence read in a book, or lyrics in a song on the radio that resonates with something you've been thinking about recently or...anything really which points the right direction to take your decisions in. Not as direct as pure mental communication but it is a little more 'concrete' when it is important. Try asking for a sign relating to something, or ask a direct question, and keep an eye out everywhere for an omen pertaining to it. Your question as to who/what is guiding you may be a good place to start.

[Thelynx]

I'm not sure why Bardon always talked about astral projection being so dangerous, I've never seen the silver cord to be as fragile as he says it is. I am no expert though so I suppose if you stretched it thin enough... *shrugs*

My variant was just basically a watered down version of his. I would do a progressive relaxation and a passive watching of my own breath until I began to loose awareness of my body. Once you fully loose awareness of your body, then you can start seperating the astral, letting it float above, the lifting out with your awareness/mental body and attaching it to the astral rather than the physical. I still find full AP rediculously hard for some reason, I suppose I am just too grounded in the physical at the moment. In this instance that it worked for me I basically floated above my body for a few moments then just sort of lost lucidity and fell back inside of myself falling asleep.

That's basically what I do. I let my body fall asleep, but usually my body separates on it's own. I've noticed that when I try and consciously separate it, it works. But then once I'm out, I lose consciousness. I think it's due to straining yourself. Once out, you become too tired to retain consciousness. Just waiting for your body to release takes a little longer at first. But at least you can retain consciousness after getting out.

Ask yourself a question, wait for an answer to formulate within your mind. Start small work your way up to questions about hidden objects (missing car keys?) future events, advice on present events. More importantly be open to its passive suggestions, you may find it can assist in decision making to where you end up coming out on top in various situations.

My problem with passive communication is that I feel like I am talking to myself. That I'm making biased answers, just hearing the answer I want to hear. But i will try and be objective from now on.

Seems like that is a good example of omens, omens can be a very effective way for the higher levels of yourself to communicate to you direction using synchronicity. Events lined up in such a way as to convey a meaning and direction. This could be very blunt such as the event you describe to something very subtle such as a sentence read in a book, or lyrics in a song on the radio that resonates with something you've been thinking about recently or...anything really which points the right direction to take your decisions in. Not as direct as pure mental communication but it is a little more 'concrete' when it is important. Try asking for a sign relating to something, or ask a direct question, and keep an eye out everywhere for an omen pertaining to it. Your question as to who/what is guiding you may be a good place to start.

I never thought of them as omens. Maybe because omens to me omens have always meant, well, something ominous. But it's good to know that all this time when I have been asking questions, I have been getting answers. I always assumed the answer would come in some sort of mental communication instead of omens. I would usually get upset when I would ask a question and basically find what I was looking for in front of me. And for a while I would think, what's the use of asking from my higher or inner if I could have found it myself. See, I learn something new everyday :] thanks.