Projection question!

[Obsidian]

So after a length hiatus, I'm back!

Did you miss me?

This year saw things get very busy for me and my computer died quite early on in the piece. With so much going on it was never really a top priority getting it back in order but I finally have one again!

And I return bearing questions! =P

Almost a year ago now I ran into this group (http://www.gnosticsociety.org.au/). They were running free seminars with the promise of teaching you how to Astral Project. After flicking through the website, it seemed like it certainly couldn't hurt so I went along to the seminars. Even better that they were free!

Armed with what I know from my studies in the past, I attended the seminars for 6 of the 10 week course (got too busy after that). Surprisingly, some of the teachers knew quite well what they were talking about. Rather, their experiences paralled mine. Some were much more religious in their manner of teaching but still contained some juicy information for the milking.

To cut to the chase here, the method they provided for Astral Projection came via Lucid Dreaming. An old tried-and-true method. I'm a very vivid dreamer but exceedingly rarely lucid so I thought if they could teach me to wake up during a dream and project I would be able to start researching again! Pull the fleshy veil from my eyes and see!

Their lucid-dreaming awakening thing was, in a nutshell:
Throughout the day, ask yourself whether you're awake or not. Ask yourself how you got where you are, what you've just done, what you're aiming to do. Ask yourself this as often as possible.

And the other thing they suggested was to pull your finger when you're questioning yourself. If it stretches, you're dreaming. If it doesn't, you're awake. Pretty simple huh?

So I started trying to do this as frequently as I could and had a fair bit of success. I was pulling my damn finger 30-40 times a day! It all paid off a few weeks later. Read on!

One night whilst dreaming I asked myself how I got where I was. Then questioned how I was able to jump 30 foot down and land on concrete without injuring myself.. Then sitting on a couch that wasn't there 5 seconds prior. This triggered the finger-pulling reflex I'd developed, it stretched out and made me realise I WAS DREAMING!

The funny thing is.. When I came to realise that, alarm bells sounded a light started flashing. Now I mean that literally. It was like I was watching myself (I dream in 3rd person) on television and suddenly police sirens are wailing and the screen was flashing red. Woke me up quick-smart!

The next time the method worked was a few nights later. After being chased around by zombies for a while, some part of me realised that isn't incredibly likely to happen if I'm awake and I tried pulling my finger again. It didn't stretch this time but that same part of me knew I was dreaming so I kept trying. I pulled harder and it did eventually stretch. However, unlike the first time, it was accompanied by extreme pain. It felt like I was actually stretching out the bones, ligaments, tendons, muscles, nerves, etc. etc. of my poor finger. The pain, as well as the fear, woke me up and I found myself in a Gnostic seminar. I posed the question as to why it hurt so much to one of the instructors only to have him say, "How should we know? We're just your subconscious". The gathered people then proceeeded to fade away, sirens rang and I woke up properly.

I continued to practice the method for another few months but nothing more occured.

I have my own views on what happened but wish to ask someone more experienced than I:

Why did that happen?! Why, when I became aware I was lucid dreaming, did sirens go off and wake me up? Why did the finger-stretching cause such agonising pain the second time around then lead to the weird 'meeting room' thing? Why didn't it work?

I'll keep my thoughts brief because this is already long enough:
It actually felt like I was being blocked from lucid dreaming/projecting. That something (internal or external I couldn't determine) was hell-bent on keeping me in my body, making sure I wasn't becoming lucid and generally giving me an unpleasant experience with the whole thing. A part of me felt this could have been my Inner not approving and locking me in nice and tight but that conclusion could have been me jumping to conclusions based on previous experiences. The fact I also directly questioned my subconscious/Inner and got a blank answer makes me think there might have been more to it than that, as well.

This all happened quite some time ago (October/November last year) but it's bugged me ever since. Kind've scared me as well. It felt like I was doing something wrong by trying to project in that manner, or trying to project at all.

The reason I'm finally asking is because I'm trying to get back into magical practice again. It's been a long time but things have recently started prodding me back in this direction and I want to give it a red-hot go this time instead of the half-assed efforts I've delivered in the past.

Is it possible (or likely) that something was actively blocking me from projecting? Faulty hardware, glitching software? External influences? If so.. Is that something that would sort itself out over time?

My senses have turned themselves back on in the last few months and I'm starting to get a lot more input. Which brings with it a lot more head pains (as is my style). I've also found that when I'm actively and consciously (attempting to) project or working with energy I have a distinct headache afterwards. Also tends to make me very drowsy and sleepy. I know I'm not using internal energy for my pet projects so could I have blown a fuse and gone with a less-sturdy re-wiring?

This is a pretty long comeback speech so I might end it there. The story will hopefully provide a bit of background for the experiences and the fears that have arisen because of those. If anyone has any ideas or suggestions? If not, hopefully the story was half-way entertaining. Thanks for your time!

[Oyama]

Goddamn it I posted a long reply and got logged out while writing it, so I lost it all once I hit submit!

Short version: I don't think you're being blocked, I think it's a matter of practice and possibly fear. You're using the MILD method to lucid dream, try other methods such as WILD. Instead of (or in addition to) pulling your finger to test whether you're dreaming, try looking at a digital clock, then looking again a few seconds later. The time will change way more than it should. You could also try turning a light switch off since light levels don't change much in dreams, or you may be able to see in the dark, which should alert you that you're dreaming. Images in mirrors also tend to be distorted so you could try looking into one. There is also pinching your nose and seeing if you can still breathe. There are lots of ways to test for dreaming, try to develop reflexes for more than one.

I find that I dream more, or at least remember them better, when I am awoken too early and then go back to sleep. You have more REM sleep later in the night, so this is the best time to go for lucid dreaming. Jason Miller actually recommends setting your alarm for about 5 hours after you go to sleep, then focus on your intent to lucid dream while going back to sleep after being awoken.

Lucid dreaming and Astral Projection are not the same thing; you are still in the dream world while lucid dreaming, but you can use it as a launching pad for astral projecting. Your issues sound like common problems found when learning to lucid dream. One of the most common problems in learning to lucid dream is that going lucid causes you to wake up. The realization that you are dreaming shocks you awake, which might manifest as sirens and alarms and such. False awakenings, such as when you woke up in the seminar, are also common. Also remember that your subconscious and your Inner are not the same thing; I don't think that seminar group was your Inner. It is possible to feel pain during dreams, I find that it varies from dream to dream rather than event to event, and considering that dream sounded like a nightmare, it might have been a dream where pain was expressed more vividly. This is why it's good to have some other dream checks.

It sounds like you simply need to practice lucid dreaming more and learn to stabilize it. Use the later cycles of REM sleep to get more attempts at going lucid, and don't think about astrally projecting with it yet. Spinning or rubbing your hands together in the dream as soon as you become lucid are supposed to help substantially in stabilizing and prolonging the lucid dream. I find that a natural, underlying fear or apprehension of the unknown is/was one of the biggest blocks to APing for me, it would always pull me back as I was leaving my body or about to leave it. Stick just to getting good at lucid dreaming, then worry about using it for APing later.

[Obsidian]

I hate when that happens! Nothing more annoying than writing a long and detailed post only to have it vanish into the ether.

Thanks for the info there Oyama. I wasn't familiar wit the MILD/WILD techniques (by name) so I'll try what you suggested and develop some more dream reflexes. Would definitely be beneficial to have more than one. Hopefully I can achieve some lucid dreaming some time soon.

Down the track I'd definitely like to use it as a jumping board into astral projection because APing is something I want to get a firm handle on. I think it would help me study and research a bit better than what I currently use (which is an attempt at MPing with a lot of 'seeing what I want to see'). But like you said, one step at a time and focus on just the lucid dreaming to begin with.

I wasn't aware that alarms and sirens were a semi-common thing when being shocked out of a dream. Makes sense in retrospect but it didn't seem that way at the time. Spinning or rubbing your hands is useful in 'stabilizing' the lucid dream? Any idea why that would work? I'll give that a try if/when I achieve another lucid dream.

It was very disheartening when those two events happened, I just need to knuckle down and give it another shot! Thanks again =)